Talk:Welsh Government

untitled

This page needs updating

--Draig_Goch20--

I thought these were the current cabinet members? What needs updating?

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley (c)(t) 20:32, 2005 Jan 15 (UTC)

Jane Hutt is not the Health Minister anymore, she was fired last month.

Draig goch20 21:26, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wales and Welsh politics needs it's own politics table

Like Scotland, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man and other parts of the U.K. Wales should have it's own politics table labelled "The Politics and Government of Wales".

Amlder20 21:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. —Nightstallion (?) 22:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Ministers Table

Why has yellow been used for the Plaid ministers? Plaid uses Green. Libdems are Yellow. I'll edit at some point if no objections. Tom::Leave a message 18:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Plaid re branded in 2006 --Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 18:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

True, but green is used to represent Plaid, due to confusion with Liberal Democrats.

See http://www.assemblywales.org/memhome/mem-party-group-seating/member-seating-flash.htm and the Party Groups link on the LHS of that page

Tom::Leave a message 13:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Reasons for establishing new offices

From the WAG location strategy webpages... Establishing new offices will not only improve accessibility and communications, but will also:

• stimulate economic growth in the local areas
• provide new career opportunities across Wales
• improve working environments for Assembly Government staff
• demonstrate the Assembly Government’s commitment to sustainable development, and use local supplies, labour and materials wherever possible

[1] Pondle (talk) 22:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Renaming

WAG has been renamed WG if anyone would like the tedious renaming duties![2] 128.240.229.67 (talk) 11:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I have renamed some key parts of the article but the name of the article needs changing. We need an admin.Aetheling1125 12:39, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done ... I always thought admins were over-rated :) Daicaregos (talk) 12:47, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I also changed it to Welsh Government in the infobox though I don't know if there is a new seal that reflects the change of name? Carson101 (talk) 13:24, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I suspect it caught the civil servants at the WAG WG on the hop too. Nothing has been changed on their website yet, except the announced change here (see small print, top left under "New Team Delivers for Wales"). Best to wait and see, then follow their lead. Daicaregos (talk) 14:17, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions for updating

Just a suggestion but perhaps this article could be reorganised and rephrased. Parts of it are written in a future tense, e.g. "the First Minister will be appointed by...". Peraps it is now time just to explain how things are done.

I also think that there should be a heading for "history" (explaining 1988 and 2006 restructures) so that it is clear to the reader what the situation is now and what it was in the past. I am finding that many of the articles about Welsh politics go through the history and then, at the bottom, tell you what is happening now. Perhaps it would be clearer to explain the current situation and then in a separate section explain the history? I am conscious that ot would be difficult to understand for someone who has no knowledge of Welsh politics at all. Tralban (talk) 13:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

CFR nomination: Category:Welsh Assembly Government

Please see:

• Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_September_7#Category:Welsh_Assembly_Government

--Mais oui! (talk) 06:03, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit warring around 'executive' vs 'government'

I have attempted to add additional information in the lede that the Welsh Government is the devolved executive of Wales. It has now been reverted twice by @DankJae, stating first that it is 'not needed' and second that I should be following the optional BRD cycle. I will explain why I have added this and why I think the editor is displaying WP:OWNBEHAVIOUR by reverting it.

1. The Welsh Government is the executive branch - and only the executive branch - of the wider devolved government (lowercase G) of Wales. The other two elements are the Senedd (the legislative branch) and the courts and tribunals system of Wales (the judicial branch). It is entirely correct to refer to the Welsh Government as the executive branch, because that's what it is. In the Westminster system the executive sits in the legislature, but has a clearly defined separation of powers between those of the executive and the legislature (though one may wield the other).
2. Whilst in the UK, we often refer to the executive as the government, because the proper nouns for our executives are nowadays Government (HM Government, Scottish Government etc), the best word to describe the element of government responsible for implementing and enforcing the law in a country remains 'the executive' because the word government is also used in the context of political science to refer to all of a polity's governing bodies, not just the executive. You can see this in my point above where I use the term devolved government to refer to all three branches.
3. Therefore referring to it as a devolved executive and linking to the appropriate article for the executive branch not only removes ambiguity but also adds more information and an opportunity to read a relevant article. I cannot see any downside to doing this.
4. Not using any of this retains ambiguity and avoids adding more information.
5. The editor that is undoing my edits is a significant contributor to this article. The 3rd example listed in WP:OWN is 'An editor reverts a change simply because the editor finds it "unnecessary" without claiming that the change is detrimental. This has the effect of assigning priority, between two equivalent versions, to an owner's version.' I believe that this is exactly what is happening here and I don't think it is working for the benefit of this article.

I am happy to hear any reasons why adding using the word executive instead of government is detrimental to the article, and would be more than happy to go to an RfC for this. Xii Xii 19:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, I suggest we park any talk of OWNBEHAVIOUR. You made a change and it was reverted. Simply putting it back without discussion is clearly not the right thing to do. Although DankJae pointed you to BRD, which, as you say, is optional, they might equally have pointed you to WP:ONUS, which is policy. You have done the right thing by bringing this to talk, but focussing on the editors would be the wrong thing.

So the second thing to say is that you are correct to say that Welsh Government is the executive branch. I also personally think there is value in making that point, as many people are unaware of the separation between Welsh Government and the Senedd. I also note that to say Welsh Government is government appears tautologous, whereas to say it is the executive is potentially good information for the reader. It also summarises information that is in the body of the article. DankJae, is it the specific wording you object to? Is there a way to mention it is the executive that would be better? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Still prefer some "government" first personally, so fine with "devolved executive government". I do understand the argument for "executive" being the main description instead, however, prefer all the devolved governments have the same leads as they do now. Not sure why Wales is singled out. DankJae 20:39, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I have seen the idea raised of splitting off Government of Wales, so may be that should be done as part of this change perhaps? DankJae 20:40, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

How about "...devolved executive arm of the government of Wales"? As regards a split - well, Government of Wales could become a new article. But what would be in it? maybe a disambiguation to this article, the senedd and the Government of Wales Acts? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Was midway through writing my response when this came through, I would argue this is probably the best compromise if we are to retain the word 'government' - it's a little superfluous, as it just means the same thing as the 'devolved executive of Wales', but it does work. Xii Xii 20:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Re a split, the wider government of Wales is already covered in Politics of Wales. Xii Xii 20:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Still calling for a further split as while there is overlap, each article can focus on certain parts. Although admit I probably should expand that before arguing a split. DankJae 21:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I would support making the change to all the devolved governments, so not singling out Wales, I just happened to be editing this article today. I think possibly you're a little confused on what 'executive' actually means? It's mostly synonymous with government in the UK, but outside the UK and in more technical terms, the two aren't the same. Xii Xii 20:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I know what executive is, but as you say the Welsh Government is rarely described as such so felt readers would be confused when seeing the Welsh Government as an "executive" rather than a "government". I want all nations to be in the same boat, although Scotland did directly reject the term executive.

Plus Wales doesn't really have a judicial branch of its own. DankJae 21:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

The branding of the governments as being a 'Government' rather than an 'Executive' is just that, branding. In terms of political science all of them are executives, as in the executive branch of the government. Confusion as to what the executive is is resolved through the link to the article Executive (government), which explains the generic meaning of the term executive.

The Welsh judicial branch is semi-devolved: it has a number of its own tribunals and its own law officer, but not its own courts. Xii Xii 21:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Also re all the nations being in the same boat, the article for the UK Government describes it - correctly - as the 'central executive authority' in the UK. It does not describe it as the government of the UK because whilst that is how it is branded, it is not actually accurate as to what the UK Government is. So that's a current example of an executive in the UK being described as such.Xii Xii 21:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)