Talk:Mohammed Deif

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Mohammed Deif was nominated as a Social sciences and society good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (April 10, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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Survived 5 other attacks?

If this is true and not hearsay, a reference should be included.

Grammar edit

In the paragraph regarding his designation as a terrorist by the EU, the last two words are repeated.

Cronch112 (talk) 23:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These kind of mistakes don't need to be discussed in the Talk pages. Just edit the grammatical error and provide an explanation in the end if needed Aminabzz (talk) 19:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IDF confirmation

IDF has just officially confirmed that Mohammed Deif was killed two and a half weeks ago in Khan Younis.

Hebrew source: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1xnvjquc ZeroByter (talk) 08:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s more or less idf saying “we said so”. The evidence that he was in that place, let alone killed is not enough and should be treated as a claim. Hamas officially denies his killing (and note that they did admit haniye’s assassination even before the IDF commented on it, so this denial should be acknowledged) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They say its based on an "intelligence assessment" (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/08/01/world/israel-hamas-iran-haniyeh-gaza). Since that's not DNA and Hamas have yet to confirm, I don't think we can say as a fact that Deif is dead. Selfstudier (talk) 09:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is also what I am trying to say too. Hamas officially denies his targeting let alone killing, and explaining in other sections with how they have admitted high ranking officials (most recently haniye) being assassinated this denial should at least be acknowledged The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to WAPO, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/08/01/israel-hamas-war-iran-haniyeh-hezbollah-news/#link-RHGL44VMYBCTJILVMXFRLXDTOU

"A Hamas spokesperson said Thursday that confirming or denying the death of any of its leaders "is a matter for the leadership" of Hamas’s military wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades. "It is not possible to confirm any of the published news," Izzat al-Rishq said in a statement shortly after Israel announced it killed Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif." Selfstudier (talk) 11:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair to the IDF, Hamas would have been unable to hide the death of Haniyeh because he was killed in Iran. Hamas has a reason to hide the deaths of Deif and Marwan Issa. Very similar to how al-Qaeda never confirmed the death of Ayman al-Zawahiri. --Foxhound45 (talk) 11:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you are assuming that the IDF never tells porkies, which we know not to be the case. You say Hamas has a reason to hide the deaths, is that just your personal opinion or do you have a source saying that? Selfstudier (talk) 11:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If Al-Qaeda never confirmed the death of Ayman al-Zawahiri why did they announced a new leader?! Aminabzz (talk) 18:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your point of view is extremely biased. IDF and Hamas are not on the same level. Hamas is a terror group designated by EU, UK and USA. I'd quite trust the IDF over them, sorry (and they are not even denying what IDF said). --Folengo (talk) 12:16, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's my source. https://x.com/JoeTruzman/status/1812132824767742162 --Foxhound45 (talk) 12:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's 13 July. Selfstudier (talk) 12:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And it finishes up "Deif and Salameh, or one of the two, maybe dead,...." Selfstudier (talk) 12:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

X (formerly Twitter) isn't a reliable source. Aminabzz (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the IDF or Hamas told me it was raining outside, I'd check. Selfstudier (talk) 12:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know that's July 13. What Joe Truzman said about Hamas hiding the deaths of their commanders is still true. Believe what you want.--Foxhound45 (talk) 12:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not a question of what I believe, the question is what should the article say. I can bring sources showing the IDF telling lies if you like and you can believe or not, too. Selfstudier (talk) 12:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In this context, this is ultimately an example of the "poisoning the well fallacy," also known as the "genetic fallacy," as such examples would be at most tertiary evidence for the validity of the claims in question in here. In contrast, consider the following epistemological intuition pump:

-Providing proof that Deif is dead is a very high bar for the IDF to clear, especially if he were blown to pieces in an airstrike. It would involve DNA analysis against a known sample.

-Providing proof that Deif is alive on the part of Hamas would be a far lower bar to clear. Especially considering that after the very public and impossible to deny assassination of Haniyeh, Sinwar was declared leader of the Hamas politburo, with no mention of Deif. Such lack of a demonstration of signs of life from Deif on the part of Hamas suggests that he is likely dead.

Absence of evidence of signs of life is evidence (though admittedly hardly proof), that he is likely head.

Thus I would vote for updating to indicate that he is likely dead, barring evidence to the contrary. 184.54.30.193 (talk) 17:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is the goal to misinform?

This article clearly misinforms. The man is dead and there is no reason to think otherwise. All the evidence exists, you just deny it.

Articles like this are simply destroying the credibility of wikipedia. 2A0D:6FC0:B24:E300:9EA7:3FC:26EE:A31F (talk) 21:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic source?

Why is source 6 allowed if it is in Arabic?

Sources should be in the langauge of the page. 2A0D:6FC0:B24:E300:9EA7:3FC:26EE:A31F (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing at Wikipedia mandates this; a source can be written in any language. Nythar (💬-🍀) 03:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Osama hamdan “confirmed”

He didn’t confirm anything, he is lying saying Deif is alive even though he is dead. Hamas has died Marwan issa’s death as well even though he is dead and America and Israel have confirmed it so change this Kwabat5 (talk) 00:16, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Denied, not died Marwan issa's death sorry

68.174.61.132 (talk) 01:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]