Talk:Northampton

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Archive 1

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"Large" town

There is a discussion at talk:Milton Keynes#"Large" town that may be of interest to editors of this article (since it also uses the phrase "large town"). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above concluded that we shouldn't use the term 'large' because we have no objective or independent definition of it. So another way round has to be found, such as "the largest town in Northamptonshire"? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 08:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In fact a "way round" has been used a little further down where it says it is one of the largest towns in England which is not a citySpinney Hill (talk) 11:03, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

With a population of over 225,100 (2018 estimates), shouldn't Northampton be listed as a 'large market town' rather than simply just a 'market town', as seen with other places such as Reading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toppyboy79 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Toppyboy79: This issue has been discussed at length at talk:Milton Keynes#"Large" town and WP:WikiProject UK Geography and, in the continued absence of any reliably sourced definition of "large" in a UK context let alone world-wide, the term is a violation of WP:no original research and cannot be used. Thank you for pointing out that the term had crept back into the Reading article: I have removed it with the same explanation.

BTW, I had to move your contribution because you put it in the wrong section? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:17, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, no worries. Yes, apologies about this being in the wrong section I haven't used this talk section before so was slightly mistaken. Thank you for editing the Reading article accordingly, I did find it odd how Reading (and Swindon) were specified as 'large towns' and Northampton wasn't. Thank you for explaining as to why neither Northampton or any other town in England should be specified as a large town. Toppyboy79 (talk) 19:44, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war over IPA rendition of name

@Nardog and Vabadus91: As you both well know, the talk page is where disputes should be resolved, not revert wars in main space. Meanwhile, WP:STATUSQUO applies: the article should stay as it was before the dispute began. In any case, you are both wrong: the local dialect pronunciation is closer to Nawf_amp_ʔon.

Vabadus91, not that it is relevant in this case but it is not correct to say that British English has a specific rhoticity because it depends. England west of Bristol, Scotland and Northern Ireland have a different pronunciation to the rest of England. Not sure about Wales. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:59, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Standard BrE is indeed non-rhotic, despite there being rhoticity in some British dialects. And if we were going by local pronunciations alone, then Northampton is pronounced non-rhotically by locals. Vabadus91 (talk) 09:24, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So has a British equivalent of the Academie Française been established? Maybe you mean English English? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article Received Pronunciation explains why there is no such thing. Even in that article, the term "BBC English" means "as spoken in London"; BBC Scotland is also BBC English but the pronunciation is not the same but equally valid. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Distance from London

I don't know if there is a general rule about the basis for this figure, but according to Google Maps the road distance is 68.2 miles from Charing Cross; according to the Engineer's line reference, the rail distance is 65 miles 68 chains (65.85 mi) from Euston. Either way, definitely not 60. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:27, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@JMF. Good to see you've raised this. 60 miles is the correct straight line distance from Northampton town centre to Charing Cross as measured by Google/Bing maps distance calculator measuring tool. I don't think its use amounts to WP:OR; I take the view it's a calculation. This is the most appropriate measurement to use across articles. Many places do not have railways and even if they do there can on occasion be more than one route to the same destination. The same applies with roads. If it's thought desirable to put the (shortest?) distance by rail or road it should go in the Transport section. When checking distances in articles I've found many inconsistencies. Recently, I pointed out an example on Talk:Manchester. With Manchester being a featured article, I didn't have the confidence to change the discrepancies myself. It may be a discussion for WP:UKGEO, unless there's a "higher" authority that specifies the basis on which distances between places are calculated or sourced. Rupples (talk) 02:52, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it will have to go the UKGEO. A long time ago, I had both "as the crow flies" distances and the "Google Maps calculated road distance" reverted in the past as not reliable, but I have certainly seen them in other articles. A clear policy is needed. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Settlements outside the town boundaries that are sometimes considered suburbs of Northampton

The (mostly) reliable source for what is or is not part of "Greater Northampton" is the Office for National Statistics. So if the area concerned is not on this map

UK Census (2011). "Local Area Report – Northampton Built-up Area (E34004611)". Nomis. Office for National Statistics.

then some serious citation finding is needed. Sorry but "it's obvious from looking at a map" qualifies as WP:Original research.

NB this is the status as at the 2011 census: the maps for 2021 have not been published yet. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New article for Northampton parish

I was wondering if it might be a good idea to create an article for the civil parish of Northampton, (e.g. Northampton (civil parish)) as it is defined differently from the urban area/former borough which this main article is predominantly about. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? G-13114 (talk) 18:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give some idea of what would be included in the proposed article to help assess whether there would be much overlap with the existing Northampton article. Also, why such content would be better placed in a new article rather than added to the existing one? Rupples (talk) 22:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking of demographic data pertaining to the parish like population, which is different from the urban area, the fact it's the most populous parish, some history of why it came about etc. G-13114 (talk) 17:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I kind of see what you're getting at. There's a significant difference between the urban area's population and that of Northampton parish. However, it might be confusing to have separate articles for Northampton and Northampton (civil parish). The population of the parish is noted in the Northampton Town Council article and relevant demographics could be added in as well; both are of direct relevance to the council article. That's what I would do but let's see what others think. Rupples (talk) 19:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The usual convention is to have 1 single article for a parish and a settlement of the same name even if the boundaries are different. Districts are normally split but not parishes. Just add the population data for the parish in this article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]